Creativity and Collaboration at ISTELive 23 with Tim Needles and Cathy Masrour

Join your hosts Jessica Pack and Georgia Terlaje at ISTELive 23 with guests Tim Needles and Cathy Masrour. Learn about how to apply creativity in the library and beyond!

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Georgia Terlaje: [00:00:00] It's Time for the Edge, a podcast from the STI community leaders. If you are an educator, administrator, or anyone in the field of education, this is a podcast for you. Over the next few episodes, you will hear stories of people who are doing the rewarding and at times hard work in education. And these stories will be brought to you by its D community leaders.

Coming up today, we've got some great guests on the show who will discuss what STEAM integration looks like in the classroom. I'm one of your community leader hosts, Georgia Tlai. I'm a TK five instructional coach and educator of 34 years, and I'm here with my favorite part during crime. Jessica 

Cathy: Pak. 

Jessica Pack: Yes, thank you, Georgia.

I'm Jessica Pak, a middle school teacher and an ISTY author, and I'm really excited for today's episode because we are going to deep dive with some very special guests about the importance of STEAM and how educators can best integrate it into [00:01:00] their classrooms. We are joined by our fellow TI community leader, Tim Needles, who is an TI author, creativity evangelist and art teacher in New York.

Tim, thanks for being here 

Tim Needles: today. Hi. Thank you. I love being a creativity evangelist. That's a, I'd never thought of that term, but like, it's 

Jessica Pack: perfect. Oh, well, we love it and we love the work that you do. Tim, you brought a really incredible guest to the table this week for us to connect with. Would you introduce them for our listeners?

Absolutely. 

Tim Needles: So I brought my favorite librarian, Kathy Maro, , who works at Smithtown High School West. 

Cathy: Thanks so much, Tim, for inviting me to the show today. , I can't wait to talk 

Georgia Terlaje: to you guys. So can you tell us just a little bit about yourself, Kathy? 

Cathy: Okay, so I am a high school librarian. I've been in the high school for about 25 years.

, I am also the instructional specialist. I'm a member of the hashtag varsity book club, which we started in my school when a bunch of my [00:02:00] students wanted to be, you know, the book club kids wanted to run out onto the. Field during PEP rally. So we started that hashtag , and I'm a former Peace Corps volunteer.

Georgia Terlaje: Well, we wanna welcome you both to the Edge, Tim and Kathy. We're excited to talk today and we're actually here at IT State Live 2023, which I think we have to say a little bit. So, , we're excited for that as well. So, , why don't you talk a little bit about STEAM education in the classroom?

Tim Needles: Sure. So, you know, I've been doing STEAM before I was really aware of the acronym. It was just something as. Like, I'm an artist personally and I teach high school art, so it was something that I just was curious about science and I would collaborate with the science teacher and, you know, I was curious about, , working with other teachers.

I really wanted to collaborate cuz as an art teacher you could end up in a bubble. , so I just started playing with students and I feel like that's always the best way to kind of start is like be student-centered and have a sense of play. And I didn't know anything about something like coding, but I'm like, I saw.

, you know, a TED Talk with a seven year old doing it. So I'm like, if he could figure it out somehow me and 30 kids could [00:03:00] figure it out. So, you know, we learned the process and we taught ourselves and, you know, that whole process is a really important learning lesson of how to teach yourself something.

And it's so much easier today than it used to be, thanks to technology. , so then I decided, like, you know, after doing lots of these different projects, , to write a book about it. So I wrote the book, steam Power for ti and you know, I'm an artist, I'm an art teacher, so obviously I believe A belongs with stem, right?

So like, but I knew that I had to actually, , you know, go to some of the places that were the bas of science and engineering and math. , and talked to them. So I talked to places like nasa, , and I just kept on asking questions, , and interviewing people, you know, and I found out, you know, NASA hires scientists, they hire artists too.

And, , you know, they are creative problem solvers. And then they hire people to work in the food service, to actually design foods that don't have crumbs for spaceships. And, you know, there's all these different types of occupations and they really validated my belief that art should be with stem. , so it was really nice to put that out into the world, , and then to [00:04:00] see all the different teachers use it, , and share some of the resources, you know, and as an educator myself, I work with Kathy in the library all the time.

, , collaborating cuz now I'm also, in addition to being a high school teacher, I started becoming, , , ed Tech, coach k12. So, you know, I love working with the library. It's the center of the school. , and you know, Kathy's a great librarian who kind of knows everyone in the school and like, knows like, you know, who are the good people to start working with.

And, , you know, that was really, really helpful. So I think collaboration is part of it, so that's why I wanted to, , talk with her here.

Jessica Pack: I love that so much that we have a little bit of another story here, not just Steam, but you are here at your, how many tis is this now? So this is my 

Tim Needles: ninth Isty. 

Jessica Pack: Yes. Okay. So you're here at your ninth Isty and Kathy, this is your first 

Cathy: Correct? Yes. Actually my very first starting yesterday afternoon with the opening session, that's, , the first that I've had of isti.

So I'm [00:05:00] grateful if it wasn't for Tim. He's the one that said, Hey, would you like to do a session at ISTE with me? I said, sure, I would love to do that. And then he said, would you like to do a playground? It was like, yeah, that sounds like so much fun. And before I knew it, I had about four, five sessions that I had to go to and and prepare.

But I think it's. So motivational. This is like, I don't know, like church for educators. Mm-hmm. It's just inspirational and motivational. And the really big benefit is that like a lot of times in the past I would go to conferences and I would get. So hyped up that I was gonna do, go home and do all these amazing things and then it would hit the wall.

And now I have Tim who supports me in the library and kind of makes it happen. They're not just ideas that I'm dreaming to do with the students, you know, together we're able to actually make some of these things happen. So it's really cool for me. 

Jessica Pack: So what are some of the projects that you guys have been able to collaborate on and bring into [00:06:00] the library for the students?

Cathy: Well, this year we collaborated with the world language teacher. , she was one of our Spanish teachers. We also did it with the Italian teacher, and we're hoping to bring the other teachers in as well. But, , the teacher wanted the students to read the play of Don Quixote and we thought she should probably take it to the next level.

So what we did is we had the kids come in and Tim is a great artist. We created puppets for all the characters in, , Don Quixote. , we didn't create them, the students did. So they worked in small groups. They had little popsicle stick puppets that they made, and then they had to retell the story, some part of the story of Don Quixote when they had to use their language skills, and they did it in front of a green screen.

So we were able to tie in all of that where they could choose the background with the windmills and really get into the setting. And, , it was a great, great success. Like the students really got, it wasn't just sitting and reading it out loud in the [00:07:00] class. It was something very interactive and project based.

Georgia Terlaje: Well, you're talking Jessica, my wheelhouse of storytelling because we are, , we feel like we are storytelling evangelists and we really like that word, , because it is kind of getting it out into the world. But yes, story hook kids, so what a great way to do that. I did wanna like touch back in the beginning of what Tim was saying and what you were saying, Kathy, too.

I love the fact both of you are like, well, I'm just gonna try this. Like you said, oh, I'm doing one session now. I'm doing five. Okay. I'll do it and, and you like, oh, I don't know how to do this, but let's figure this out with the kids. I think you have to have that spirit of, , it may get messy, but we're all gonna figure it out because that's the way you learn new things and what a great, , equality piece in a classroom.

It's like, I don't know about this. We don't know about this, but let's figure it out together and let's teach each other. I think that's super impactful for your students to see you at a place where you're not the sage on the stage, but, , Yeah. How does this coding thing work? 

Tim Needles: Yeah. You know, [00:08:00] it's just more honest actually as an approach cuz it's like I really believe in being authentic as a person, you know?

And you know, who knows where these students are gonna end up and what they're gonna do. But the lesson of learning to understand failure and if you're just reflecting and persevering, it's just learning, right? So like getting rid of that stigma and also keeping yourself fresh. Like I see so many of my colleagues like.

Not do so well after 25 years of teaching. And it's like one of the things that's fun, it's like I have no idea what I'm gonna be doing even a year from now. You're like, it's always something new and fun. And you know, I love learning. That's why I'm a teacher and I get to share that with students. , and it's important to model, like how to deal with failure, how to deal with problems that when you're not sure how to proceed and how to collaborate.

Because that's one of the ways out of it. Like, you know, I love collaboration. I think, you know, it's not enough to talk about it. You actually need to do it. You know, and one of the things that we talk about when we're doing a session tomorrow on collaboration is that like, you know, a lot of it's really coordination in schools more than collaboration.

And it's like taking it to that next level of really [00:09:00] working together and planning and being strategic, you know, could change the culture of a school. And you know, culture is one of those things that has this huge impact and really changes kids' lives. 

Jessica Pack: So Kathy, can you speak a little bit to the culture of your school and how it's shifting and changing based on the work that you're doing?

Cathy: So, I agree with Tim. This is how I approach every day when I go in, I do not know what is gonna happen. I kind of do this thing that I learned in the Peace Corps. You just do a needs assessment. And so this year we had two students from the Ukraine and , you know, they were struggling.

And I heard they were kept saying that this is stupid. Why do we have to do this? And their teachers were yelling at them and I kind of intervened and started to talk to the students and try to find out what was going on. And yeah, the students dad was stuck in Ukraine, was fighting. They had just arrived here and she was.

Of course not [00:10:00] impressed by having to do a PowerPoint on whatever. So we started, , working together, collaborating with other students, with language students, with the ELL students, and we created, , I taught them how to crochet and they crocheted scarves and we sent them to Ukraine. , and then later on in the year we had the earthquake in Turkey.

And so this approach to collaboratively, it makes the students feel like, , there is someone else with them in their situation and in their grief. And most of the time, you know, unfortunately we do not have to deal with the grief thing, but it gives the school a sense of community when the teachers partner together, , and for, you know, a common goal.

I 

Jessica Pack: absolutely love the idea of STEAM as a pathway for social emotional health and learning and just wellness of the whole child. , Tim, could you talk a little bit to the idea of SEL inherent in 

Tim Needles: steam? Yeah, [00:11:00] a hundred percent. You know, one of the things I, I made a point of actually adding a chapter in my book about sel and you know, I say creative mindfulness because social emotional learning gets tagged sometimes negatively in board meetings and things like that.

Mindfulness seems to. Avoid that. So, you know, it's the same thing. But I, you know, I, I kind of feel like, especially, you know, being someone that deals with a lot of technology changes a lot, you know, you can't learn something as a teacher and then 10 years later feel like you know everything because that's not the world we live in.

You know, AI has changed so much and six months, like, you know, who knows what six months is gonna look like. So I think, you know, we have to manage ourselves, we have to be healthy, and it's really helpful to model that to students. And also, you know, here are the potential negatives and this how it, it could be hurtful and here are the potential positives and it could save the planet, right?

So like it, it's really important to kind of share that process and that thinking structure with students. And you know, we're people so, you know, it's really important to be empathetic. , and I think it's really helpful to have different perspectives too. And one of [00:12:00] the things I like working with Kathy was, you know, like when she was in the Peace Corps, she was in Morocco and it's like, you know, I love travel and I love different cultures, and like, there's no better learning than traveling.

You get to see how different people see the world, you know, and that's a valuable lesson. And it's like, you know, getting those different perspectives and, and really giving those students voices, , you know, in our community really makes a big difference. And I can say like, you know, as a ed tech coach, I'm in charge of five buildings, right?

So like, , two high schools and three middle schools. So like I could see the culture changing and shifting slowly cuz I have a more wide perspective. , and this was like intentional cuz I had admin courses and I just finished my admin degree and they talk all about collaboration. I just don't really see it happening.

So I'm like, I wanted to secretly infuse collaboration and actually make it happen. So, you know, I had the benefit of getting this new title. , through, , COVID funds and then like, you know, because it hadn't happened in my school, there was no structure for it. I was able to kind of really have freedom and be [00:13:00] creative and do all these cool projects, you know, and then when you have a good project, that's a STEAM project, and especially when it reaches out and touches kids personally and emotionally.

You know, other people wanna do it and you could really see that snowball. And, 

Georgia Terlaje: and that's where we get back to evangelism. I'm sorry, it's the word that works because you suck people in with the joy of like, you know, you're talking about your Don Quixote project. If you're doing it in the library, the center of the school p are seeing it.

And you kind of pied Piper people in that maybe were reluctant in the beginning to try something new because, , I feel you on that. Yeah. There are some people that. You don't wanna try new things. 

But I, it sounds like that's maybe what you're kind of intentionally trying to do is kind of get some people on board and then kind of build the tribe as you go along. 

Tim Needles: Right. I think that's the most successful way to actually make change. It's like you need to find people that are open, that are willing to, , work with you, and then you need to build.

So like, you know, [00:14:00] show success, show how this is valuable to people. , and also be totally inclusive because it's like, you know, as a teacher, like administration, like I just never felt a connection. I didn't always know. If they even knew what I was doing in the classroom. And it's like now that I have a ed tech job where I'm able to go into five different buildings, like it's important to support teachers, but it's also important to like open that same voice up to students.

And it's like, you know, be student centered. Like what are you interested, what do you wanna do? And that's what, you know, like a great example of what Kathy was talking about cuz it's like, you never would've imagined we'd be working with Ukraine and like focusing on that. And you know, and, and it's great cuz it's like regardless of the content, you're able to use the technology, right?

So the steam we. Graded stickers and buttons and we, we had a, there was a whole fundraiser night, , and things like that. And, you know, it also opens up a different cultural ideas and people learned a lot about the different cultures of the students that were there. And it made them feel like they had a voice in school too.

So I think like, you know, this is important work that you do. And even if it's not from the top down, like in the way, like maybe people expect it [00:15:00] should, I'm always a believer that like, you know, don't expect anything. You just make it happen. 

Jessica Pack: This whole conversation puts me in mind of Daniel Pink's book Drive and how every person is motivated by mastery, autonomy, and purpose.

And what I'm hearing you talk about today hits all three of those domains, and your students must be so on fire to come and work on these STEM projects. 

Tim Needles: Absolutely. I, I'll tell you, Kathy has a whole group of students that are probably like, they spend more time in the library than anywhere else because it's like they, they feel comfortable there and it makes a difference.

And I love Dep. Pink's book is like a must read for all educators. I'm honored that, I'm actually mentioned in the book, I'm in the credits because he did a cool project where, , you know, you could look it up online. He did, , you know, JFK was, , president and he was trying to do too many things and. You know, they said like, well, you need to just like have one focus right now that you're known for.

Cuz like, , you know, Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves and like, you know, you don't want to be known as someone who just tried to do a lot and didn't accomplish anything. [00:16:00] So giving focus to it. So he asked, you know, I. The world to like share how they do this in a creative way. And, you know, I did it with my class.

So I had all the students say like, well where do you wanna be in 30 years? Cuz like, the way that he posted is like, you know, looking at your death. And I'm like, well, not, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna make kids think about their death. So like, where, where do you wanna be in 30 years? Where do you wanna have accomplished?

And like, write it as if you've accomplished it. Like, so I taught thousands of kids and helped change the world. Right. And then I had them created as a graphics and we, we shared them and we made a video. So like that was a powerful thing cuz it gives students, like, it identifies their goals and it gives them focus and like that's really how you kind of build, you know, that autonomy and like, you know, it gives them a, a, a chance to really say like, I could do this cuz they, a lot of students, like, that's a challenge to say like, well what do I wanna do in 30 years?

I mean, it's hard for me to say what I wanna do in 30 years, but it's a good thing to think about to like, have a focus of where you would like to go. 

Georgia Terlaje: Well, and all of that, I think, , from what Jessica and I have been [00:17:00] talking about while we're here, is that it gives kids that hook for school. I'm thinking of your library kids that just wanna be there because it's the place where they feel welcomed and safe and maybe seen, which is super important.

And, , so we talk about the hook and the anchor. That, you know, anchors them to school to get all of the other things done. So I think that's really, really powerful and, , I hope that we keep spreading this word because, you know, we want our kids to feel seen and heard and wanted so that they can learn all the things so they can do all the things that they wanna do.

30 years from now. 

Jessica Pack: Well, I'm dying to ask how can others replicate what you've accomplished? If they are listening to this podcast and they want to start to affect change in their buildings the way you have been able to in yours, where would they start? 

Tim Needles: Yeah, so I'll give a a few pieces of advice.

First is start small, right? So you need to be manageable because it's like, you know, you don't wanna swim against the waves for too long. It gets very hard and you'll weigh [00:18:00] yourself out. So I think it's you. You have to find you, you know your people. So, Find people that sort of are, are on board with you and are willing to work with you, you know?

And I think learning how to collaborate is a skill itself. So I think that's really important. , and then also really have a vision. So like, you know, schools talk about vision, but I think it's important for actual individual teachers to kind of a vision of like, why do we do this? Right? So like, whenever I do PD for teachers, I'm always like, why do you love teaching?

Like, why are you here? It's grounding and it kind of helps you, you know, find that focus, , and then you're able to make change. 

Cathy: And I would just say infused creativity wherever you can. , I don't mean that your students have to become master painters, but students do need to know creativity. Creativity is probably the most important skill you can give them when they leave.

School creativity is something that will help them solve problems in the future, and that's a real life skill. And I think a lot of people think that creativity is just using markers and glue [00:19:00] sticks and scissors, but it's so much more than that. , and I think it can change students' lives if they can have the ability to think creatively.

Yeah, that's 

Jessica Pack: such a good way to wrap up this episode. , before we do start the wrap up it, how can listeners find you? Like, how could they connect with you? , if they have some burning questions based on this conversation, 

Cathy: I'm at, , on Twitter at hsw l i b or Lib. 

Tim Needles: I'm probably easy to find, just Google 10 needles.

I'm on , all the social media at 10 needles and I'm always happy to work with anybody. 

Jessica Pack: Well, thank you so much for being here today and for this fabulous conversation about what STEAM integration can look like and the collaborative effort that, , hopefully people will strive for. , this about wraps up this episode of the Edge Podcast.

We hope you had a great time. My name is Jessica, and you can find me at Pack Woman 2 0 8 on Twitter and Instagram. 

Georgia Terlaje: And I'm Georgia Tlai, and you can [00:20:00] find me at Georgia tlai on Twitter. And , you can find both of us at storytelling saves the world.com. 

Jessica Pack: On behalf of everyone at Ty's the Edge podcast, remember to keep exploring your passion, fostering your creativity, and continue taking risks, all things that can bring you to the edge.