Whakawhanaungatanga: Building Relationships with ISTE Community Leaders Global Learning Conference

Join Georgia and Jessica as they explore the upcoming Global Conference with Dr. Michael Harvey, Nicholas J. Wilson, and Jody Britten. Join this international team as they discuss the upcoming conference along with a global perspective on the state of artificial intelligence. 

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[00:00:00] Georgia Terlaje: It's time for the edge, a podcast brought to you by it's the community leaders, whether you're a seasoned educator, a visionary administrator, or a passionate education enthusiast, fasten your seatbelts. Cause this podcast is tailor made for you. Get ready to embark on an exhilarating journey as our ISTE community leaders take you behind the scenes and into the dynamic world of education.

[00:00:27] Georgia Terlaje: And the episodes ahead will unveil stories from the front lines, showcasing the relentless dedication and innovation that fuels the transformative field of education. Buckle up and brace yourself for an adventure coming up today. We've got three fabulous guests on the show who will discuss artificial intelligence and global education.

[00:00:48] Georgia Terlaje: I'm one of your community leader hosts, Georgia Trilahi. I'm a TK5 instructional coach, an educator of 35 years, and I'm here with my always favorite partner in crime, Jessica Pack. 

[00:01:01] Jessica Pack: Why, thank you, Georgia. The feeling is entirely mutual. I'm Jessica Pack, a middle school teacher and an ISSA And I'm really excited for today's episode because we are going to deep dive with some special guests about AI in global education.

[00:01:19] Jessica Pack: We're joined once again with fellow ISTE community leader, Dr. Michael Harvey. Michael, welcome back to the edge. 

[00:01:27] Dr. Michael Harvey: Ah, yes tēnā koutou yes, a bit earlier, a bit later than my first podcast with you guys. Yeah, so I'm Dr. Michael Harvey Director of E Learn E Learning at Marlborough Boys College in New Zealand top of the South Island in Blenheim, and any background noise it's because I'm at a conference at the moment presenting on artificial intelligence for the PPTA, the Post Primary Teachers Association.

[00:01:50] Dr. Michael Harvey: Also, another hat I wear. Is of course being a community leader and one thing we are moving towards at the end of April is our global impact conference and today we have two of our speakers luckily on this podcast Jody Britton and Nicholas Wilson and I'd like to introduce Nicholas to talk about where he is from.

[00:02:13] Nicholas J. Wilson: Hello, everybody. Thank you for having me here. My name is Nicholas Wilson. I live and work in Japan in elementary and junior high school. I teach English as a foreign language, but I'm also on the digital transformation committee for the local board of education. So I'm involved in different at different stages of the educational level.

[00:02:36] Nicholas J. Wilson: So I'm happy to share what we've been doing here. And nice to meet you all. Thank you. 

[00:02:44] Dr. Michael Harvey: And also introducing Jody Britton. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself? 

[00:02:49] Jody Britten: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you all for having me. I'm Jody Britton. I'm the head of research and innovation at the Team for Tech Foundation.

[00:02:55] Jody Britten: I'm also on the leadership team for a new Gates funded project, AI4Education. org. I am stateside, so I'm in the states, but we work with a global community of both edtech developers and educators. At Team for Tech, we very much focus on non state actors, so we have a community of both. Around 2000 educators that work outside of government schools.

[00:03:17] Jody Britten: So excited to be here to share a bit of our work. 

[00:03:22] Georgia Terlaje: So to get us started would the three of you mind telling us like sort of the origin story of how you got involved in the global impact conference?

[00:03:35] Dr. Michael Harvey: I guess from my perspective I am one of the organizers. So I am an ISTE community leader who likes to put the I into ISTE being from New Zealand. And we thought this was a very effective way of showcasing what our global educators are doing. We're doing around education, and I guess today's podcast is focusing more on artificial intelligence.

[00:03:53] Dr. Michael Harvey: So ways that educators around the globe are incorporating artificial intelligence into their teaching and learning.

[00:04:02] Georgia Terlaje: Nicholas, how did you get involved with the Global Impact Conference and these three lovely people? 

[00:04:09] Nicholas J. Wilson: Well I'm also a Google certified innovator, and I'm connected to people all over the world. And when I saw this opportunity to share what we've been doing here in Japan and learning about, I The same in other countries around the world.

[00:04:23] Nicholas J. Wilson: I thought, well, I have to be there. So really happy to be here. Thank you. 

[00:04:30] Georgia Terlaje: And Jody, how about you? How did you become involved in the impact conference? 

[00:04:33] Jody Britten: You know, we, we were part of the global playground last year at conference. And I've been involved with SD for a very long time. I've done a lot of work with the standards and, and all the things.

[00:04:44] Jody Britten: And I think right now we are in a very special moment where our global story has such relevance and such opportunity to inspire everyone. You know, I, I think for me Kayla and her team, Michael, you guys have just done such a great job of, Making a group of connected people in a very global dispersed place and bringing us all together around this one story.

[00:05:10] Jody Britten: So we're, you know, always happy to jump in and support that message that that kind of message and mission of, you know, ISTE is the international society and we need to make that a capital I. So I'm glad to be here to do that. 

[00:05:26] Jessica Pack: Well, we're so happy to have all of you. Within your educational context, how are you using ai?

[00:05:33] Jessica Pack: Could you maybe share an interesting project with us, Jody? 

[00:05:38] Jody Britten: Yeah, absolutely. I think right now the, the biggest project that we have is the AI for education.org work. And that is a collaboration with Fab Ink and Fab Data out of the uk. And that is very much focused on. Bringing kind of the tech developer community and really under resourced areas into the fold in, you know, I has such an opportunity to enhance everything.

[00:06:03] Jody Britten: But at the same time, it could be our biggest digital inequity ever. So this work is very much focused on finding. And finding and funding, I should say ed tech developers that live and work in under resourced communities and then have our community as well be able to benefit our community of educators, be able to benefit from that.

[00:06:24] Jody Britten: So with that work right now, we've done. All kinds of convenings really empowered that teacher and that developer voice to really come together. We've developed toolkits and use cases for AI and education that have been very much the voice of the teacher on a global scale, which has been incredible.

[00:06:43] Jody Britten: We've also been able to fund. Really interesting new technologies, like an offline LLM a new kind of CPD using a chat bot a lot of new language tools that are going to be make these, you know, very traditionally exclusionary products inclusive for all of our learners. 

[00:07:08] Jessica Pack: Nicholas, what about you?

[00:07:09] Jessica Pack: How are you using AI in your educational context? 

[00:07:15] Nicholas J. Wilson: Wow what I just heard is like, wow, it's a completely different world over here. In Japan, especially teachers have always taken a very conservative stance in terms of teaching approaches and AI. It's still in its early stages over here. So the government in 2020 started this this project called the giga school project, which basically equips.

[00:07:44] Nicholas J. Wilson: Every student elementary and junior high school student in Japan with their own device for studying and that was already, they're still not really into that. They're still trying to get teachers to use tablets effectively in the classroom. And suddenly we've been hit by this wave, let's say, and now we are in this stage where.

[00:08:11] Nicholas J. Wilson: The Ministry of Education is trying to push for the use of A. I. in schools. But at the same time, the teachers still don't know enough about it. And so right now there are a number of schools in Japan. I think it's around 10, which have been appointed as AI prototype schools. So basically in these schools they're trying to Understand how I can be used effectively with students and for teachers.

[00:08:43] Nicholas J. Wilson: The main problem I see at the moment. 1 of the biggest problems is the language barrier. A lot of these tools have been developed. In English. And so with the lack of translation, it's really hard for teachers who are not, who don't have the necessary language skills to try and approach these new tools.

[00:09:08] Nicholas J. Wilson: So It's still very how should I say, it's still very green around here. So, what I've been trying to do right now is finding ways to kind of like help teachers with material preparation and things like that. So, there are a lot of things that need to be addressed. So, that's why I wanted to Kind of like attend this conference just to see how everybody's been doing all over the world.

[00:09:42] Nicholas J. Wilson: Hope that answers your question. 

[00:09:45] Jessica Pack: Absolutely. I think it's so interesting, like, the different approaches in each of your situations to integrating AI, understanding it, and, Being able to leverage it effectively with students. Dr. Michael, would you mind sharing a little bit about your perspective on AI and maybe an interesting project you've seen some educators utilize?

[00:10:09] Dr. Michael Harvey: Yeah, so basically there's twofold from my perspective, it's kind of training up teachers in New Zealand to use artificial intelligence. At present very similar to Japan, there's been a kind of conservatism. With only about 30 percent of teachers actually incorporating artificial intelligence in the classroom.

[00:10:26] Dr. Michael Harvey: So it's about maybe developing their skills around prompt engineering and ways that they can improve their, their teaching and learning. For example, being able to create rubrics for assessment or novel assessments. And the second part of that also is students and again, how we can teach students.

[00:10:44] Dr. Michael Harvey: The main hesitancy we have in New Zealand is around assessment. So the idea of students essentially cheating, copying and pasting responses from artificial intelligence, and it's moving that conversation from the artificial intelligence replacing you in terms of giving you the assessment or the answers to the assessment as a student to working beside the artificial intelligence as a tool to actually improve the learning experience.

[00:11:09] Dr. Michael Harvey: So those are kind of the discussion points. A case in point from my own classroom. I am a Taylor Swift fan. I did go to the Taylor Swift concert in Melbourne. Even though I'm at a boy's school, it's quite gimmicky, I admit, but I've created using artificial intelligence a reconditioning or reconfiguring of blank spaces by Taylor Swift to actually link in with our 1.

[00:11:31] Dr. Michael Harvey: 2 science standard that was started this year. So it's just a way to engage students. With artificial intelligence while still being a swifty 

[00:11:39] Georgia Terlaje: Jody do you have come across? What are some issues you've come across? I know Nicholas shared. I mean, sounds like there's some big issues where he's in his age educational setting. What are some issues that you've come across around AI in the work that you do? 

[00:11:57] Jody Britten: Nicholas, I love everything that you that you shared in you to Michael.

[00:12:00] Jody Britten: I think for us, you know, we are still seeing such Inequalities in terms of just access to AI technologies. And, you know, for us, the answer partly to that is kind of that local innovation. I think on the user front, we just did a survey of 200 of our community members and. They really, you know, they really spoke very bluntly about, you know, they don't have the data.

[00:12:27] Jody Britten: They don't have the bandwidth. They can't, they can't get these things to work. And, you know, when they're struggling to have power and just access to Internet as it is you know it reminds you to be thankful for everything you have, right? When you, when you read all that at the same time, there's, you know, they are continually encountering biases.

[00:12:45] Jody Britten: They can get two or three steps into a prompt in a generative solution and. It will revert them back to this very Western higher income country context that has no use for them, no relevance or no, no use. So, so there's that piece of it. There's also, you know, just the quality assurance in, in that. And then also just the, the need for everything to be.

[00:13:11] Jody Britten: Continuous. We've had so many. We have this great group of innovators in our community, and they are fearless and brave. And it's an inspiring thing to watch. But to see them get frustrated because they get into something and then they lose power. They get into something in their, their data cuts and they lose everything.

[00:13:31] Jody Britten: It's an incredibly frustrating thing, you know, and, and these guys are committed. They're committed to the task. They are committed to the vision and they want to make it work. I think for me, it goes back to that 100 percent need for investment just in that, in the infrastructure globally, but then also kind of that attending to the risks that are kind of cross cutting and making sure that we're doing the best that we can.

[00:13:55] Jody Britten: Our answer to that in a lot of situations is training our, our community and our educators to really use AI as a co pilot and make sure that, that that's how we're talking about this with our teachers, with our staff, with our students even with governments, you know, this is a co pilot situation.

[00:14:14] Jody Britten: So that's a long answer, but that pretty much sums it up, 

[00:14:20] Georgia Terlaje: but very, very impactful. And I wanted to kind of just comment on what Nicholas was sharing. So Jessica and I work in a district where almost no, 1 is talking about AI, except for us and the teachers that we train, which in a way is good, right?

[00:14:36] Georgia Terlaje: Because that means we can go out there and be at the forefront. But it is still that difficulty in getting the message out there and, and teaching teachers that it is a co pilot and it's not something to be afraid of. So I guess what I want to like say, Nicholas is don't give up the fight. It's worth it.

[00:14:52] Georgia Terlaje: Even if it's, you know, one teacher at a time, bringing into the fold, the work is really worth it.

[00:15:02] Nicholas J. Wilson: And let me add to that, that there is one other thing, especially in terms of students, okay, thinking about the students, especially here in Japan, until a couple of years ago, the goal was to have students memorize the answers, right? So you have high stakes exams, you need to remember the answer. Then now, slowly, we've been moving towards that.

[00:15:25] Nicholas J. Wilson: More like, okay, now think, what do you think the answer is? And there are different answers and so on. I have the impression that now that we're trying to, if we're moving towards AI and the government is trying to push for this, we need to train the students not to think about the answer, but the question, right?

[00:15:49] Nicholas J. Wilson: It's how you ask things. So they need to be able to have those skills, not to just give the answer, but to, okay, if I. Make this kind of question, I might get this kind of answer and so on. So it's a completely new stage. And this has to start already from like lower grades, right? From first grade, second grade of elementary school.

[00:16:12] Nicholas J. Wilson: So if this, until the teachers, if they don't have. They don't realize that the students need these question skills, then we're never going to reach that point where AI is used effectively. 

[00:16:30] Dr. Michael Harvey: Yeah, just to kind of go on to what Nicholas was mentioning the idea that knowledge is no longer the basis of where your worth comes from, because the AI is so much better with that, except when it comes, obviously, to critiquing.

[00:16:43] Dr. Michael Harvey: So there isn't still a space for knowledge and artificial intelligence, but it's what we actually add. In terms of value as being humans. Which we really need to focus on and the idea of actually being a nomad moving from potentially position to position and it's our values and our Competencies that we're actually traveling with and it's no longer the knowledge that we're traveling with I think that's something we have to kind of acknowledge in terms of a transition in terms of education The idea that it's actually the relationships that we share That are the important thing.

[00:17:17] Dr. Michael Harvey: So in New Zealand, we have the, the phrase which is a verb, which is actually building the connections between people. And that's where the strength of our humanity comes in. 

[00:17:30] Georgia Terlaje: And I, I think that's like, that's a two fold thing thinking about training teachers, not only in how to use AI, but also how to break away from that, you know, teach them just to answer the question.

[00:17:43] Georgia Terlaje: Cause we struggle with that. You know, I can speak to our, our district is helping teachers get away from that. Just being the sage on the stage to incorporating student centered learning. And it is a huge shift for people that have been in education a long time. And then you put AI on top of it. I mean, I, you know, we have to give them some grace.

[00:18:04] Georgia Terlaje: So we just keep pushing out the things in a friendly way and hope that People will come along for the ride because it is so important for kids to be able to think on their own. 

[00:18:15] Jessica Pack: Absolutely. You know, Jodi had touched on the concept of inequity of access. Are there other moral or ethical questions that are involved with the use of AI?

[00:18:28] Jessica Pack: Michael, do you maybe have any thoughts on that? 

[00:18:31] Dr. Michael Harvey: Yeah, from an indigenous perspective, especially in New Zealand, we have a city of Waitangi, and our second article does mention that Māori have control over taonga, which is kind of treasure. And one could argue that indigenous knowledge comes within that framework.

[00:18:46] Dr. Michael Harvey: So the idea of data protection and data sovereignty is another issue with artificial intelligence. Where does that information go? How's it being used? What agency does a person have in terms of controlling it? So that's one thing that comes immediately to mind.

[00:19:03] Jessica Pack: And how about you, Jodi, is there another issue that we should consider when we're using AI with students? 

[00:19:09] Jody Britten: You know, I think I think we've heard a lot about safety and security and privacy and, and when we, when we first did our first chat GPT training with 300 educators globally, like, over a year ago now, like, we really impressed upon the importance of making sure that there's transparency and the tools that they're using, you know, is your students data going to be stored?

[00:19:34] Jody Britten: And become a part of their training set, or does it disappear as soon as they close the window? You know that kind of that, that data privacy is, is very, very important to me. I think the conversation I would love to see us move into is exactly what Michael was talking about. You know, we have an ethical responsibility to our students to develop their capacities and their understanding and their tools.

[00:19:57] Jody Britten: And even just thinking about, I was working with a teacher the other day. And they had a question on an assignment of who invented the first computer. And we just took that one question and we, and we tore it apart and said, what can't chat GPT answer, you know and, and just that one simple exercise raised so many great questions about our responsibility in this to develop their skills and understanding so that they know.

[00:20:26] Jody Britten: They can't just copy and paste a question and an answer and have it be in their voice and be it their work. And that we need to get into that conversation more, you know I think the data privacy piece spot on. I think our students are. moRe interested in that conversation than we give them credit for and how can we kind of empower their intentional development in this in this space.

[00:20:53] Jody Britten: It's not just, it's not just an ask. It's a need

[00:21:00] Jessica Pack: Nicholas. Have you encountered any other moral or ethical questions from the people that are in your educational sphere? 

[00:21:10] Nicholas J. Wilson: I mean as I said, still very early on over here, the most thing, the biggest problem teachers are kind of concerned about, and this was on the news the other day was students using AI just to copy, but also the lack of, the fact that they don't double check the answers, and I don't know if you read this on the news in a junior high school in Tokyo, I think 250 students answered the same way on the test. They added this exact same answer, and it was a wrong answer. It was a science test, and basically all of them, apparently, well, not all of them, but like almost half of the students basically use the internet and use the AI.

[00:21:58] Nicholas J. Wilson: To answer a specific question. I'm not a science teacher, so I'm not going too much into the details, but basically the AI formed created the answer by looking at the website or picking the information from a website from a very big producer. And this the website for this producer had the wrong information on their website apparently since 2018, but nobody has really like looked into it.

[00:22:28] Nicholas J. Wilson: And so basically the AI picked information from this reliable source and just fed that kind of gave the students that answer and they all got the wrong answer. So it's not even a problem. It was just saying, okay, the students are copying the information. It's even going deeper, right? It's can we trust these tools at this stage?

[00:22:50] Nicholas J. Wilson: Right? Because in the end, they are, these tools also rely on the information that we put on the Internet. So there's a lot of, it's this kind of spiral that goes around and there's a lot that we need to think about. Even in terms of digital citizenship programs and so on, how, how much they include users of AI and so, yeah.

[00:23:23] Georgia Terlaje: So kind of bringing us back to the global impact conference. These are been some like great ideas and conversations. I could see us staying up all night and chatting about all these things truthfully. But could I get each of you to tell us what you're presenting at the global impact conference to get listeners excited?

[00:23:40] Georgia Terlaje: Can we start with you, Jody?

[00:23:45] Jody Britten: Absolutely. We have so many tools. I'm so excited. This, the AI for education. org project started just, we literally found out we had funding in October and it has been a dead sprint run. So we have a compilation of use cases that were again, teacher and community created with ideas for those use cases for AI and examples that are just wonderful, like thought pieces.

[00:24:10] Jody Britten: We also have a free. Accessible class and just an introduction to AI that we actually launched before chat GPT came out. So it doesn't have any of that. It's just all about AI as, as a general thing. We also have we just released last week a toolkit for teachers and just trying to help them understand, especially when they're non English speaking teachers.

[00:24:34] Jody Britten: And they're trying to combat some biases, how they can prompt and continue to prompt correctly to try and train and retrain. We have that. We also have a bunch of new tools that I'm excited to just highlight and share with people that are coming out. We're investing in those where they're getting great coaching so many things that are, that are there.

[00:24:56] Jody Britten: So I'm just excited to share all of it because it's all there for the taking. So. This is just another opportunity to get everything into the hands of the people that it was created for. 

[00:25:07] Georgia Terlaje: That's very exciting. And even more impressive that you can share that excitement over zoom with that sort of energy and impact.

[00:25:14] Georgia Terlaje: So I'm, I'm excited now to Dr. Michael, can you share what sessions you will be leading at the global impact conference? 

[00:25:23] Dr. Michael Harvey: I'm essentially working behind the scenes with Kayla and Greta and Olga to kind of make it all work, but I'm hoping to run hopefully a panel to discuss these ideas around artificial intelligence, depending on timing.

[00:25:35] Dr. Michael Harvey: But yeah, that's my goal for the conference. 

[00:25:39] Georgia Terlaje: And how about you, Nicholas? What are you leading for the Global Impact Conference? 

[00:25:43] Nicholas J. Wilson: Well while this, today we were talking about AI, my Most important, what I'm trying to reach here and I'm trying to achieve here is to raise awareness of education in Japan build new connections.

[00:25:57] Nicholas J. Wilson: So by sharing what we've been struggling with over here. And building connections with educators around the world, I hope we can kind of like sit together, kind of sit at a chair, sit at a table and kind of like share ideas, share suggestions and so on. So it's mostly let's. Get to know each other kind of presentation.

[00:26:26] Georgia Terlaje: And that's back to Michael you're can you say what the indigenous word was that you had for the year that had to do with like getting to know people? I can't pronounce it.

[00:26:38] Georgia Terlaje: I'm not going to say that, but I like it.

[00:26:44] Jessica Pack: Well, one of our understandings is that there is a theme ish for the conference. That's how Kayla referred to it. The theme ish is about making a positive difference in the world. So if you could fill in that sentence frame for us, I make a positive difference in the world. Bye. Jody. 

[00:27:05] Jody Britten: Okay, I'll go first. I think, you know, this is always, it's always hard, but I sure hope I'm making a positive difference in the world.

[00:27:12] Jody Britten: And I hope I'm doing that by supporting the people on the ground that are doing the really important work directly with our kids.

[00:27:22] Jessica Pack: And Nicholas. 

[00:27:24] Nicholas J. Wilson: By building international connections that go beyond cultural and linguistical differences. So. Especially for Japan, it's very, it's always been a kind of isolated country, especially for the language barrier. And so I'd like to share more about what we've been doing here and connect the country to with foreign educators.

[00:27:53] Nicholas J. Wilson: And create more effective ways of reaching out to our kids. 

[00:27:59] Jessica Pack: Perfect. And Michael, you had such a great answer to that on the last episode, which you remind listeners. 

[00:28:07] Dr. Michael Harvey: Indeed. So I've got my, I love teaching in parables and proverbs with my students. So the two proverbs I'm going to go with is the, the, or the parable is the old man by the ocean throwing in starfish.

[00:28:20] Dr. Michael Harvey: Okay. And a young boy comes up and says, why do you waste your time? There are so many. But for that one starfish, you have made a difference. So that's also for you, Nicholas, making that change in Japan. And the other proverb I'd like to do is a whakatauki from New Zealand.

[00:28:38] Dr. Michael Harvey: wHich means adorn the bird with feathers so it shall fly. So we're adorning our students with their feathers so they can soar into the future. So that's kind of my passing thought. 

[00:28:51] Jessica Pack: I love that so much. You know, I'm sure listeners are very excited about the Global Impact Conference. You know, AI is at the forefront of all discussions it seems like on social media.

[00:29:03] Jessica Pack: And among educators just over the water cooler. So thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your time, your message and just your experiences before we let you go where can listeners connect with each of you to continue the conversation and to keep an eye on that global impact conference.

[00:29:23] Jessica Pack: Nicholas, where can people find you? 

[00:29:27] Nicholas J. Wilson: Oh, on Twitter or, well, now it's X or LinkedIn. Thank you. 

[00:29:35] Jessica Pack: And Jody, 

[00:29:37] Jody Britten: they can either hit me on LinkedIn on our team protect.org page or on jody britton.com.

[00:29:47] Jessica Pack: Thank you. And Michael? 

[00:29:50] Dr. Michael Harvey: Yep. So they can find me in LinkedIn as Dr. Michael Harvey, or on x as Dr. Halves. And thinking about my Taylor Swift covers, if you want to listen to my science based Taylor Swift covers, my YouTube channel, which is also Dr. Harves. 

[00:30:06] Jessica Pack: Wonderful. Well, that wraps up this episode of the Edge podcast.

[00:30:10] Jessica Pack: We hope you had a great time and learned a lot. My name is Jessica and you can find me at Pacwoman208 on Twitter, threads, and Instagram. 

[00:30:21] Georgia Terlaje: And I'm Georgia Terlahi and you can find me at Georgia Terlahi on X. And you can find Jessica and I both on StorytellingSavesTheWorld. com. 

[00:30:30] Jessica Pack: On behalf of everyone here at the ISTE Edge Podcast, remember to keep exploring your passion, fostering your creativity, and continue taking risks.

[00:30:40] Jessica Pack: All things that can bring you to the edge.