“Accurate Mirrors”: ISTE Arab Affinity Group with Sawsan Jaber, Ph.D. and Neda Anasseri

Join Georgia and Jessica as they sit down with the leaders of the Arab Affinity Group for ISTELive 24 in Denver, Sawsan Jaber and Neda Anasseri. Sawsan and Neda share what to expect for those that join the affinity group and how to create “accurate mirrors” of the communities in which we teach with our students.

Transcript

ISTE’s The Edge: Arab Affinity Group with Sawsan Jaber and Neda Anasseri

[00:00:00] Georgia Terlaje: It's time for the edge, a podcast brought to you by it's the community leaders. Whether you're a seasoned educator, a visionary administrator, or a passionate education enthusiast, fasten your seatbelts because this podcast is tailor made for you.

[00:00:13] Georgia Terlaje: Get ready to embark on an exhilarating journey as our ITSD community leaders take you behind the scenes and into the dynamic world of education. In the episodes ahead, we'll unveil stories from the front lines, showcasing the relentless dedication and innovation that fuels a transformative field of education.

[00:00:32] Georgia Terlaje: Buckle up and brace yourself for an adventure. Coming up today, we've got two fabulous guests on the show who are going to be discussing affinity groups for It's Dee Live 2024. I'm one of your community leader hosts, Georgia Terlahi. I'm a TK five instructional coach and an educator of 35 years. And I'm here with my always favorite partner in crime, Jessica Pack.

[00:00:55] Jessica Pack: Thank you, Georgia. It is always a good time to hang out with you at the edge. I'm Jessica Pack, a middle school teacher and an ISTE author. And I'm really excited for today's episode because we are going to discuss the role of affinity groups in the ISTE community. And today we will be focusing on the Arab affinity group.

[00:01:16] Jessica Pack: We are joined by fellow ISTE community leader, Sosan Jober. Welcome to The Edge. 

[00:01:23] Sawsan Jaber: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm honored to be here. 

[00:01:26] Jessica Pack: You've also brought another ISTE community leader friend here with you today as well.

[00:01:31] Jessica Pack: Could you introduce them, please? 

[00:01:33] Sawsan Jaber: Yeah, absolutely. Nada Nossity, my partner in good crime at ISTE, leading the Arab affinity space and just doing some great work together. 

[00:01:43] Neda Anasseri: Hi, everybody. Thank you so much for having us. And I'm so happy to join my, my friend, Sosan. 

[00:01:49] Georgia Terlaje: Well, welcome to The Edge. We're so glad to have you here.

[00:01:52] Georgia Terlaje: We always like to start out with your origin story, how you met each other and started working together. So could you tell us your origin story? 

[00:02:01] Sawsan Jaber: Our origin story is probably the same origin story as so many people in ISTE and in conferences, and Ned and I actually met at Q. So Neda is a board member at Q, and I was presenting at Q last year in Palm Springs, and that's how we met each other.

[00:02:15] Sawsan Jaber: It's not hard for you to spot an Arab, particularly a hijabi Muslim educator. We're often the only ones in a lot of our spaces and educational spaces. So whenever I see someone who is a hijabi Muslim, Is wearing hijab or who has an Arab name. I get super excited because there's just so few of us in education in educational spaces presenting at conferences and especially in ed tech spaces.

[00:02:38] Sawsan Jaber: And so I think that we naturally just gravitated towards each other and became immediate friends. 

[00:02:44] Neda Anasseri: I agree. I mean, I had one of my staff come up to me and say, Oh my gosh, there's an amazing presenter. Her name is so Sanjiv. I just left her, you know, session. She was so dynamic. It's so amazing. And I just couldn't help myself, but wait to meet who this woman is.

[00:02:58] Neda Anasseri: And then of course, at a, you know, after a conference gathering with many of our other educator friends, I was able to spot her and feel like I've connected with my, you know, someone from. I see myself in those positions, right? So I immediately gravitated and was celebrating her success and hearing about the amazing work that she's doing and then connect immediately.

[00:03:20] Neda Anasseri: So, so, so amazing. 

[00:03:25] Jessica Pack: Well, thank you both for being here today. You know, I'm really struck when you're saying that, you know, sometimes seeing someone else. You're kind of maybe not having always that sense of belonging. So I'm wondering what's the impact of the scarcity of Arab professionals in educational spaces?

[00:03:44] Jessica Pack: Could you talk about that a little bit? 

[00:03:46] Sawsan Jaber: It's so layered and so deep. And I think particularly for Arab Americans specifically. I mean, there's a, there's a shortage of BIPOC teachers in the field altogether, but I think that particularly for Arab Americans at a time where there's so, I always say we're hyper visible when it comes to marginalization and misunderstanding and stereotype, especially on a very high level political reign, like our last, Presidents with like the bans that were put on Muslims and kind of the misunderstandings of Arabs and how we show up rarely in school curriculum So so many people are socialized to be afraid of what we represent when we show up in these spaces It's really problematic that a We don't get to just be a part of professional spaces in a lot of situations where we can just be present and be humanized and be seen as professionals in these spaces.

[00:04:35] Sawsan Jaber: But I, so for kids in schools, I think that that it, it kind of adds to this like level of alienation and misunderstanding because we're not present in the spaces. But I think in, in so many times, like even when I'm presenting and I've been presenting, I think I presented at like 60 conferences last year.

[00:04:54] Sawsan Jaber: And I get people who come up to me and say, well, you speak such great English. I'm like, yeah, I was born in Brooklyn. There's just so many misunderstandings about the Arab identity, about the Muslim identity that I think when we're able to be a part of these spaces, and we're able to not even have to talk about being Arab or being Muslim, but just being professionals and, and, and experts in our fields, that that shifts a lot of the narrative of stereotype that exists around our identities and around who we are.

[00:05:21] Sawsan Jaber: Yeah. And I think people can start to, they can start to humanize us, right? And it doesn't even require that we have to be talking about our issues or what it means to be us in these spaces. It just allows us to be who we are and bring what we can bring with all of our professionalism and expertise.

[00:05:36] Sawsan Jaber: And that does make a big shift. So 

[00:05:39] Neda Anasseri: I mean, I can piggyback and say that, you know, having few Arab teachers and administrators means Arab students lack role models and representations among professionals in their school. You know, it can reinforce this feeling of not belonging or one's culture is not valid or valued in that space.

[00:05:57] Neda Anasseri: So, you know, this all creates kind of these. These limitations to perspectives that get included and can basically provide or create this ignorance and biases that, you know, kind of continue in these learning spaces. So increasing Arab representation would promote a greater inclusion and understanding.

[00:06:17] Neda Anasseri: And it's, you know, here's an interesting fact. I mean, Sosen just said that she was born in Brooklyn, born and raised in Brooklyn. Guess what? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was born and raised in Brooklyn, right? And, and that's, and that's something really important to know because a lot of the Arab communities started in Brooklyn, New York, right?

[00:06:34] Neda Anasseri: What do we know about the history of immigration out of New York, right? And so those are some really, you know, other interesting facts that we can kind of educate ourselves and really learning about the Arab community.

[00:06:46] Georgia Terlaje: Would you ladies discuss a little bit about the hyper visibility and the invisibility of Arab students and educators? 

[00:06:56] Sawsan Jaber: So hyper visible. I my dissertation focused on interviewing Arab youth. And just looking at what the experiences of Arab students in the public sector are in historically homogenous school districts, but where they exist in large numbers and almost unanimously.

[00:07:11] Sawsan Jaber: These are kids who have dealt with. Extreme levels of macro aggressions. One in three kids was bullied by a teacher and identity based bullying, not by just students. And so think about like the adolescent experience and how difficult it is to be an adolescent today with social media and just figuring out your identity and your self concept and all these other issues.

[00:07:30] Sawsan Jaber: But then top on top of that, the misunderstandings that come with being an Arab, with being a Muslim, with being a Palestinian today more than ever, with everything that's happening in the world and like the difficulty of. Claiming that identity without being labeled as anti Semitic or being without labeled as being labeled as a terrorist or without labeled being labeled as one of those stereotypes that exist around that identity.

[00:07:54] Sawsan Jaber: And so they're absolutely hyper visible when it comes to all of the marginalization, all of the bullying, all of the, the, the, the things that come with. the oppression of BIPOC people in the schools, and then they're absolutely invisible when it comes to advocacy because up until this upcoming year, we didn't even have a box to fill or a bubble to fill on the census.

[00:08:15] Sawsan Jaber: And so they were considered white. And so even with things like ESSA that require us to focus on subgroups and their growth, Arab American students were never parts of conversations for advocacy, never parts of conversations for growth. We didn't really talk about. How are they belonging in our schools?

[00:08:29] Sawsan Jaber: And they're not, they don't come from democratic backgrounds for the most part. And so self advocacy is not something that even exists in the Arab world. It's something that's a learned skill. And so we're not teaching self advocacy to this particular group of people because we're not recognizing that they exist altogether.

[00:08:45] Sawsan Jaber: And so absolutely invisible when it comes to like advocacy and all of the conversations that exist around how do we elevate Marginalized groups and and and really mirror them with regards like even staff and all of these other conversations They're non existent when it comes to the Arab American community in our schools.

[00:09:04] Neda Anasseri: I can definitely add to that I would say that Arab students and teachers often experience the hyper visibility when it comes to stereotyping Profiling discrimination related to their ethnicity, right? Particularly after events that get publicized. And so this is a lot of what Sosan just said yet they can also, you know, they often will also say experience invisibility and removal or deletion of when it comes to their voices and their history.

[00:09:30] Neda Anasseri: So, a lot of the time when we're thinking of what's going on in the media You know, this gives them so much kind of attention that the attention that they don't necessarily want to receive. But yet a lot of the, you know, incredible experiences and history and, and, and all the stories that they can bring to the table seems to be kind of removed.

[00:09:51] Neda Anasseri: Right? And so their prescribes perspectives. Not being included in, you know, the curriculum that we're learning. It's incredibly an issue just knowing that I don't see myself in the learning spaces. You know, this kind of just makes our students ourselves feel invisible. So I think those are some of the issues that we, you know, kind of Arab students or Arab voices kind of suffer.

[00:10:15] Sawsan Jaber: I'm going to add to that too, and just say like, if we did I started an Arab American Educators Network. That's national and it's about 400 Arab teachers strong from the entire country. And we did like just a quick curriculum review of schools that the teachers were working in to see where Arabs show up in the curriculum and the places where Arabs show up in the curriculum are always in a deficit mindset.

[00:10:35] Sawsan Jaber: We're either showing up and there's a conflation. Very few people know the difference between Arab and Muslim. And so those two identities are often really mixed in together. And so there's a large misunderstanding of like, People thinking that, you know, when we're talking about 9 11, we're talking about Arabs, or we're talking about all Muslims, and that's where we tend to show up in the curriculum when we're talking about 9 11, when we're talking about the Ottoman Empire, and then there's nothing else there, and in English classes, the only mirror that currently exists in most schools is the Kite Runner.

[00:11:02] Sawsan Jaber: Which is a non Arab extremist Islamic text. And so that becomes not just does it limit the under like the idea that students who are coming from these backgrounds never get to see themselves accurately represented and are immersed in stereotypes of themselves. But then also what happens is it becomes the only window.

[00:11:20] Sawsan Jaber: For other students who don't identify as Arab and Muslim and particularly in communities where there aren't other Arab and Muslims. It's all they know. And so when we see something like what's happening in the world today, where an actual genocide is happening, and we're still trying to convince people that there's humans behind These statistics that we are looking at in the news and that there needs to be humanitarian aid, and there needs to be a ceasefire, and people need to be advocating for that, especially when our country is funding it, right?

[00:11:46] Sawsan Jaber: But there's a whole other conversation to be had about humanizing a group of people that are constantly dehumanized by design in a curriculum, and they only show up in those states. In the curriculum in those ways and kids, they're not going to self advocate because we know adolescent development says that these are kids who just want to belong and they want to fit and the teachers are the people with the positionality of power in that space.

[00:12:07] Sawsan Jaber: And so when that happens, the power dynamic automatically shifts and that student then becomes a receiver. of this misinformation that becomes, I always say like this is where curriculum becomes a weapon, right? It can become a tool and it can become a weapon. This is where curriculum becomes a weapon and it literally destroys kids because their self concept is shattered when they're immersed in only these images of themselves.

[00:12:27] Sawsan Jaber: And then they have to survive these spaces where they're, they become so dehumanized because their peers only know this about them. And then we Why we look around our country and we see that there's so much hate and we have, we're the only country in the world that has these issues of school shootings.

[00:12:42] Sawsan Jaber: It's because we literally elevate hate by design through our curriculum and through one sided stories in our curriculum and through our political, like we are, we're, we're on impending. On a pending like another presidential election and our elections literally elevate hate to bring people to the voting polls and so combine those two things together and we have a really dangerous situation in our schools where people don't understand each other and we fear what we don't understand and then there becomes this other ring that happens and we are dividing our communities instead of us really having communities where everyone feels like they belong enough and we humanize each other and value the diversity that makes our country beautiful.

[00:13:19] Neda Anasseri: I don't know. I'm Susan. If you've ever, well, of course, you felt this. So, you know, this idea of, you know, somebody is ready to tell you a story and they tell you, you know, they heard something on the news and you're already prepared to hear this negative, immediate kind of action of, you know, my parents come from Yemen.

[00:13:35] Neda Anasseri: They were born and raised in Yemen, which is a Middle Eastern country. So, when somebody is prepared to tell me, oh, they learned something new about Yemen, I'm always kind of prepared to hear the negative, piece that comes behind that. Prior to all, you know, maybe some activity in the Middle East, the, the most people can tell me about Yemen is that they saw it on an episode of friends, right.

[00:13:54] Neda Anasseri: That there was just, that was the only knowledge they had of the country of Yemen, right. Was from a TV show. So, so those are, you know, those are other kinds of pieces that tells you that we just, you know, there's an invisibility. Invisibility there for sure.

[00:14:11] Jessica Pack: How can non Arab educators be authentic allies to help create more inclusive educational settings for Arab students? 

[00:14:24] Sawsan Jaber: I think that that question, you know, I, I, it looks the same for how do we show up for a lot in a students? How do we show up for our black students? How do we show up for our students that live in the third space?

[00:14:35] Sawsan Jaber: Right? Because oftentimes when we look at things, we look at things as a binary. It's. Black and white and nothing in between. But there's a lot of kids who live in that third space and who are invisible and being erased living in that third space. And so I think it starts with first educating yourself.

[00:14:49] Sawsan Jaber: We constantly talk about in education the need for us to create accurate mirrors and and and co create with students and like make these lesson plans that these design these these learning experiences that are really meeting the needs of kids. How do you meet the needs of kids that you don't even understand?

[00:15:06] Sawsan Jaber: Right? The kids that you don't even really know when we aren't really looking at the complexity of the identity, the Arab identity, the beauty of the culture. There's so many beautiful aspects of the Arab identity. The Arab contributions to current things that we have, like the letters the medicine, our contributions to art.

[00:15:22] Sawsan Jaber: I went to a whole Cartier exhibit in Texas where they talked about how Cartier himself culturally appropriated Arab designs and all of his art. And that was something that was never recognized. We are never spoken about it. In a way of recognizing all of the beautiful contributions in the Arab world was one that was immersed in beautiful poetic language before poetry became a thing internationally, we spoke in verse and there were battles poetic battles in some of the earliest villages that we can recall historically in the Arab world.

[00:15:51] Sawsan Jaber: That's nothing that anybody ever studies in school. Some of the early era poetry is so complex. It's absolutely beautiful. There's ways to tie in the complexity of the Arab identity, the beauty of the culture in every content area. But it starts with people first educating themselves about more than what we studied in school, right?

[00:16:08] Sawsan Jaber: And I, and I say that because I know that there's not a single educator. I'm an, I'm an administrator. I work with educators. I consult all over the country. I've worked with teachers all over the place. No teacher gets into the field of education because of the money or because it's an easy job. They get into education because they love kids and they, they understand the magnitude of crafting tomorrow's future through the field.

[00:16:31] Sawsan Jaber: But we all also have to recognize that we've been socialized by a lot of these same systems that are harmful. And unless we do the unlearning that's required for us to relearn something different and something new, we're Then we're perpetuating the same harm that was perpetuated on many of us. And so it starts with learning and understanding that that community and then co designing with students and allowing them a seat at the table to determine for themselves what accurate mirrors look like.

[00:16:54] Sawsan Jaber: Because I teach in a school, I work in a school that is primarily Latina. And if I am being the gatekeeper of what a mirror for those kids looks like, I'm going to get it wrong. It's not my community. I don't identify that way. So. So it's really shifting our practices to include students in our in decision making in curriculum design and having them come to us and tell us what it is that they need without putting them on the spot and saying, Hey, I want you to tell me what your experiences are, what you need, but making that a part of the design so that all of the kids in the space have the opportunity to create those accurate mirrors of themselves that become windows for other kids.

[00:17:28] Sawsan Jaber: And us doing the work as crafters of what that learning experience looks like to be as as best as we can knowledgeable about the kids that we're serving beyond the education that we've received, because oftentimes that's very limited.

[00:17:42] Neda Anasseri: So, you know, the question is, how can non Arab educators Be allies, so non Arab educators, I would say, can be allies to include educating themselves on Arab cultures and histories. Just like, you know, we've kind of talked we've been talking for a little while now about just the histories that a lot of.

[00:18:01] Neda Anasseri: Pieces and a lot of non Arabs don't know about that hasn't been able to be moving forward and added to the curriculum and and and discussed and celebrated. So I would say, you know, educating educating oneself about cultures, different cultures, histories, all the current issues. That's important to, be prepared to listen, listen, you know, I always tell my daughter this, listen, listen, listen to listen, don't listen to react. Right? And so if we authentically listen and help amplify those stories and those Arab voices that that is incredibly helpful. Confront and stop stereotypes, discrimination, biases against Arabs and colleagues.

[00:18:43] Neda Anasseri: I mean, be the voice, the voice that doesn't include an Arab in the room, be that voice that stops a lot of those pieces of stereotypes, that discrimination. Help us by, you know, continuing to create inclusive environments where Arabs perspectives, their voices are represented, whether it's in the curriculum or in activities or in different spaces, no matter if you're an educator or not and then pay attention, pay attention to the race, the color, the ethnicity when it comes to hiring practices.

[00:19:14] Neda Anasseri: I think that's also very important. Crucial give Arabs a chance to grow. You know, oftentimes the quiet ones, you know, don't, you know, get overlooked. And, you know, why are we, why are they quiet? You know, what else is there to add to that question? So, so be observant give, give opportunities and then, you know, Build relationships that allow for engagement or allow for celebration, allow for, you know, respect, respectful dialogue, really.

[00:19:42] Neda Anasseri: So I think I love that question. And I think those are some of the ideas that I've jotted down that can help. 

[00:19:49] Sawsan Jaber: I would also add, normalize, like this is a tech conference and everybody here is an expert to some level on technology or trying to become an expert. So, you know, Normalize, like I do this thing with my students when I was teaching of, of lightning talks every Wednesday where I bought in people from all different kinds of backgrounds.

[00:20:05] Sawsan Jaber: And I was really intentional because we didn't have representation that looked like our students and our teacher staff. I made sure to bring in experts that look like them too and experts that came from different backgrounds because we are also cultivating a global A student body like we're no longer limited to physical space anymore.

[00:20:23] Sawsan Jaber: Kids are interacting with people all over the world through their technology. And so we can't just be responsive culturally. We need to prepare kids to, to, to appreciate and to engage with authentically and effectively anybody. And so that means that we also should be bringing in teachers that don't necessarily look like our student body.

[00:20:39] Sawsan Jaber: Just so that we can also normalize and elevate the professionalism, the expertise, the humanity of those voices and those spaces in our classrooms. And that's as simple as inviting people into your classroom through to be experts on a bunch of different things. I taught AP research and I had my students, I'd had doctors from all different backgrounds talk about their passion projects, because that's what research is.

[00:20:59] Sawsan Jaber: It's a passion project. And so we were able to hear teachers and educators who, to study different things that look like all different kinds of backgrounds who talked about all different kinds of research. And my students will tell you until today that that was the best experience that they ever had educationally because it opened an entire world for them.

[00:21:17] Sawsan Jaber: From their classrooms. So I would say, normalize, normalize bringing us in as professionals and professional spaces. Normalize bringing us in as voices for kids in different spaces. There's a lot of amazing Arab teachers doing some amazing things in the field that are absolutely invisible to. And so I would love to go to an ISTE conference one day and see an affinity space that's filled.

[00:21:37] Sawsan Jaber: We only had five people in our affinity space last year. And that's a testament to how many of us actually exist in that space. And so I'd love to go to a conference and see it. A lot of us there where we're, we're being bought in specifically and they feel like there's a space for them and, and, and that affinity space becomes such an important space as well, because a lot of times you don't have affinity in your own buildings.

[00:21:57] Sawsan Jaber: I know in my building, I'm the only one. I'm the only one in the entire district. I've always been the only one in the entire district. And that's a very isolating. Stands to have to begin with altogether. 

[00:22:08] Georgia Terlaje: So speaking of affinity groups you had said last year only you had five people and that's part of us doing these podcasts is we're hoping to get the word out and have people interested So what are the plans this year at it's d with the arab affinity group?

[00:22:24] Georgia Terlaje: And if you have a time you want to tell listeners about so that maybe they can get the word out As well, so we can, you know, build up your community and have as many people there as possible.

[00:22:39] Neda Anasseri: I think I, I mean, I, I know that what we plan is, is going to hopefully create a place to share stories, to process trauma, to celebrate cultures, and to find the strength within the community. I won't, you know, our dream is to kind of Be a place of affirmation that identities, no matter who they are and and and whether or not they feel that they're visible or, you know, what not that they're worthy and that they're there in the space that they can, you know, have those conversations.

[00:23:19] Neda Anasseri: So that's, that's my hope in the planning as we continue to plan for our affinity space and at ISTE 2024. 

[00:23:27] Sawsan Jaber: And I would say that we don't know how many people are going to show up because it's regional, right? So that, like, depending on the community that you're a part of, are there a lot of Arabs who live there?

[00:23:34] Sawsan Jaber: And is the conference something that's accessible? But even if it's just me and Nada, it's a start, right? Yeah, we'll have more than five. And that's something that I've been intentionally working on in a lot of my conferences. I have students that have graduated since I've been in the field for 25 years.

[00:23:48] Sawsan Jaber: Crazy as it sounds, I've got students who graduated who are now teachers who I'm also taking with me to speaking conferences and now they're speaking at conferences. So it's also like really working to cultivate and grow a community of speakers and presenters to share some of those lived experiences.

[00:24:02] Sawsan Jaber: And so I'm hoping that Maybe I'll have some of those teachers come with me to ISTE. They've come with me to NCTE and some of the other English conferences. And I'm hoping that I can bring some more of them to come into the ISTE space sooner than later. And so. 

[00:24:15] Neda Anasseri: I can't wait. I mean, we are, we are trying to create these spaces where individuals feel seen and heard and valued.

[00:24:21] Neda Anasseri: And I think this affinity group at ISTE Live definitely can help us do that. 

[00:24:28] Jessica Pack: That's wonderful. Thank you so much. This has been a great conversation. We really appreciate you taking your time to, to share today about the Arab Affinity Group so that people can keep an eye out for it at ISTE Live. Before we let you go, where could listeners connect with you on social media?

[00:24:47] Sawsan Jaber: You can find me at sjeducate. It's in my handle. I'm on Instagram, on Twitter, and on LinkedIn with my name, Sosam Jabbar. And then my email too. If anybody's looking for resources, particularly to teach Arab or integrate Arab, we've done tons of webinars and other things on like integrating Arab experiences or Arab histories or Arab stories or Palestine today.

[00:25:08] Sawsan Jaber: From the Palestinian perspective, if you're interested in some of that work, you can reach out via email education unfiltered at gmail. com. 

[00:25:17] Neda Anasseri: Definitely want to follow and connect with Dr. Je debit. I am telling you, you should because she is amazing. You can find me on LinkedIn Netta Anari, NADA an A-N-A-S-S-E-R-I.

[00:25:32] Neda Anasseri: You might ask, wait, I thought you're Netta, NEDA versus Neta, NADA. There is a name identity. Story behind that and so that's another layer of Arab voices that we don't hear acculturation versus a simulation and just some of those pieces around names and identity. And I've done sessions by around a name identity as well.

[00:25:53] Neda Anasseri: So there's that on LinkedIn and then you can also find me on X at. Oan Netta. So that's O-T-A-N-N-E-D-A. OAN stands for the Outreach and Technical Assistance Network, and that's a project out of the California Department of Education where we serve adult educators through the state of California with ed tech training and development.

[00:26:16] Neda Anasseri: So there you can find me on X at oan Netta. 

[00:26:21] Jessica Pack: Fantastic. Thank you again. That wraps up this episode of the Edge podcast. We hope you had a great time and that you will plan to look up many of these affinity groups that we are talking about at your ISTE live adventure this year. My name is Jessica and you can find me at Pacwoman208 on X threads and Instagram.

[00:26:44] Georgia Terlaje: And I'm Georgia Terlahi and you can find me at Georgia Terlahi on X and you can find both of us at storytelling saves the world. com. On behalf of 

[00:26:54] Jessica Pack: everyone at ISTE's The Edge podcast, remember to keep exploring your passion, fostering your creativity, and continue taking risks, all things that can bring you to the edge.